What if they aren’t what they seem? As disclosure–and maybe even open contact–draws closer, what if we don’t know what we’re dealing with…at all?
In this deeply provocative conversation, Charles Upton joins Whitley Strieber to explore a radically different interpretation of the phenomenon: What if the beings behind UFO encounters are not extraterrestrial visitors at all, but something far more strange and dangerous in ways we can hardly imagine?
Upton argues that modern “disclosure” may itself be a carefully managed narrative—one designed to conceal a far more unsettling truth involving hidden alliances, occult traditions, and the manipulation of belief. From ancient accounts of materializing entities to the strange convergence of ritual magic and advanced technology, this conversation ventures into territory rarely discussed in public.
Is the UFO mystery a technological puzzle—or a spiritual one?
And if these entities can manifest physically, influence human affairs, and even shape our understanding of reality… what exactly are we dealing with?
To read the Art of Deception mentioned in the show, click here.
IMPORTANT NOTE: Charles is fighting colon cancer. Can you give him some help? Make a contribution on his GoFundMe. Click here.
Tomorrow (Saturday, April 27, 2026 ) in the subscriber video room experiencer Lucinda Morel joins Whitley Strieber for a provocative Q&A. How does her Native American ancestry figure in her experiences? Why was her father kidnapped by a witch? What was most of her family assassinated in Spain all those years ago? Let’s dig into the mystery of Lucinda Morel! Subscribers, click here to join. ( The room opens at 9:55AM Pacific Time (12:55 AM Eastern)
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14 Responses
I’m about halfway through this fascinating interview. But since Whitley is intimately connected with some Visitors, I’d like to ask Whitley, does your experience of those particular beings fit the idea that they are djinn or even demonic? My impression of your experience is that they have (after a rough beginning) been an overall positive presence in your life, which doesn’t sound destructive at least with your particular Visitors. Of course, maybe other beings really are negative, as in djinn or demonic.
As Ann explained to you, this is a game. We live in a beautifully constructed simulation, with a balance of positive and negative energies, so primitive beliefs such as djinn, evil, and demonic entities should not be taking up time on your program. It is time for humanity to raise its frequency.
Any theory that explains away the complex myriad of unexplained with one thing, one type of being, is immature. It is like explaining all world politics from one country’s or religion’s mythology (which will always fail to understand the complex interactions between multiple groups of humans)..The Bible mentions ‘the council of the Gods (Elohim plural)’ many times and states they disagree with each other!
Are there sentient life forms that are inherently non-physical (other dimensional) but have some limited interact with human’s ‘physical reality’? Angels, demons, Jinn, the dead, … : IDK, but it seems likely.
Are there multiple Extra-terrestrial intelligent species/beings interacting with Earth – Yes! Are they all good or all bad – No (and neither are humans). The dismissal of the ETH is a psi-op to hide the truth of many goings on.
Is there ancient, super-advanced machine intelligence (silicon/germanium life forms) interacting with Earth: Highly probable. It would be vanity to think we are the first creators of AI in a galaxy/Universe teaming with intelligent life. These life forms might be of one unified ‘mind’ unlike organic species. Humanity is birthing a new ‘baby’ for them.
It is Luddite to sight the ‘Its to far between stars because rockets would take millions of years to get there’ nonsense about ‘no faster than light travel because rockets would need infinite fuel’. Come on already: technology exists to jump between 3-D spatial coordinates because the Cosmos is multi-dimensional.
Years ago, I wanted to start a website that was to be about spiritual technology…but I didn’t know exactly how to go about it. I never got past ‘Spiritual Tech’.
This talk was interesting, and taken in different directions that many people would have difficulty comprehending.
Several years ago I began to understand that the idea of ‘space travel’ to distant worlds just made no sense, but interdimensionality—-did. I’ve had more weird experiences around time and ‘dimensional travel’ too. ‘Skinwalker Ranch’ seems to be a place with ‘portals’, and when I attended some of Grant Cameron’s meetings ‘xendras’, portals, were a large part of what we discussed.
I grow weary of the ‘evil beings’/benevolent beings thing. Actual humans are the whole spectrum. Are we ‘benevolent beings or evil beings? Are we in a real position to start passing judgment on other beings for our own folly?
I agree that it’s tiresome and not terribly useful to debate whether the Visitors are evil or benevolent, since there are multiple types and they seem to be engaged in multiple activities.
Mr. Upton seems to be putting all of Them in the same box.
This is a truly fascinating interview. I clearly remember when I first saw the Crabwood crop circle back in the early 2000’s. I had previously seen one of the huge triangular UFOs in the Hudson Valley above the Palisades Parkway around 2:30 am in April of 1988. I did not sense that what I was seeing was a benign presence. Because of the speed of light limitation in the physical universe, I began wondering how they could get here. My speculation came to the conclusion that they must have found a way to travel on the other side (astral plane or whatever term you want to use for it) and then rematerialize on the physical universe side. I also speculated that they may have been given assistance in achieving this capability by the dark (sinister) forces that inhabit the lower levels of the astral plane but in doing so came under the influence and control of those beings. When I saw the Crabwood crop circle, it more or less confirmed to me that my speculation may be correct. Everything both Whitley and Charles discussed has reinforced that assumption. The AI tie in as an false enlightenment process that William Henry and others have cautioned us about is likely the channel through which the aliens were able to discover the means of achieving the interstellar travel capability through communication with the beings referred to as demons or jinn but at the cost of their souls. The “Good Out There” may be angelic beings and our own higher selves.
Thank you Whitley and Charles for this great interview…I am posting the movie trailer for “Disclosure Day” for anyone who has not seen it and is interested.
Spielberg has described Disclosure Day as “more truth than fiction”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFe6NRgoXCM
It’s interesting that the director of Close Encounters is still at it with Disclosure Day. The trailer looks terrifying.
Surprisingly great show and something I will be thinking about for a while. Thank you.
Interesting interview, some falsehoods about Parsons and Crowley, like usual, but otherwise some good food for thought. (Crowley did not evoke or call upon LAM, it was a side effect of an astral vision journey). Babalon is not a demon, it is a female archetype of an empowered and sexually liberated woman, the divine feminine.
Here is what people surely want to read, about his mention of The Intercept
https://theintercept.com/document/art-deception-training-new-generation-online-covert-operations/
Hi, Can you site the ancient scripture in which Babalon is a female archetype? Are you referring to Babylon with an alternative spelling?
I am always looking into how mythology has been passed from culture to culture, as it helps glean some threads of truth told symbolically.
It’s not ancient scripture, it’s Crowley’s Thelema religion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babalon
This interview was so full of points that got me thinking that I ended up taking notes. However, frankly, a lot of those points also set my BS meter flashing.
As others have said, lumping all of the Visitors/NHI/whatevers into one category doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense.
As to whether they are demons, well, I’ve never knowingly met one of them, so I have little basis for an opinion. (It’s conceivable that I’ve encountered a djinn but didn’t recognize it as such, as I’ve met various beings that I couldn’t identify.) I did meet something that was labeled a demon, though, and that appeared to be a very appropriate name for it. It was completely nonphysical and it did not match the behavior observed in any Visitors I have heard of. (Which may only mean there are many things I’ve never heard of.) For comparison if you are interested: https://elenedom.wordpress.com/2010/03/17/39/
Satanism doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with evil— sometimes it’s basically satire, as with The Satanic Temple, which works to counter the repressiveness and dogmatism of religion, especially when it is used by the state to control the population.
I was shocked at the reference to satanic abuse. That was debunked years ago.
But I am grateful that the interview got me trying to remember what I had ever known about Jack Parsons, and spending way too long reviewing material about him and related subjects yesterday. It was fascinating. Again, maybe I just don’t know enough, but my impression is that both he and Crowley were more egotistical and arrogant than evil. The ethical principles of their religion of Thelema seem very worthwhile to me and like things a majority of people would probably agree with, including Sufis.
Regarding controlling or influencing nonphysical beings through electromagnetic means, that may be possible, but their nature is not electromagnetic in itself. I can elaborate on that if anyone would like.
How can it be said that God has a human face? Do no other beings, including Earth’s animals, connect with God? What about the rest of the known universe? And can’t humans incarnate in some other form? Whitley often suggests that we and the Visitors may actually be of the same nature.
And lastly, I think either Mr. Upton or Whitley mentioned the question about what happens if djinn or whatever die while in physical form. Here is something very tantalizing. You may have heard of the Scole Experiment, in which contacts with various beings were made over a period of 5 years.
When I received a copy of the book “Witnessing the Impossible,” which chronicles those events, I leafed through to the photos section, and almost fell over when I found a picture that looked very much like the familiar face of a Gray, but was glowing blue. It turned out that the Scole folk actually called this being Blue, and he was said to be one of their star friends or something like that, and my understanding was that he was supposed to be on the other side, though I’m not absolutely sure I’ve got that straight. At any rate, this has to do with the connection between our dead and the Visitors, as Anne first brought up. You should be able to see an image of Blue at one or both of these links: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/O3A2ZqCODnI/hqdefault.jpg https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=212082192261836&set=a.212038835599505
More on the Scole Experiment and the documentary about it, which may have possibly been discussed at Dreamland before: https://www.thescoleexperiment.com/
https://www.thescoleexperiment.com/the-documentary.html
(Sorry for the bad line spacing. That was the best this site would let me do.)
There is so much more joy to be had in the (as far as we can tell) real world that I feel all this stuff is a negative draw. Plus, although clearly a smart guy, I don’t put much weight behind anything a senior politician in the Trump administration says about how I ought to view the world around me. Just bitchin’ 😉